As part of Bishop Given Gaula’s travels across the United States, he and Bishop Brian Cole sat down for a brief conversation about the unity of the global church, communion across difference, and ministry in context all while giving thanks for the continued support and prayers for each other.
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Transcript
Bishop Brian Cole: Hi, I’m Bishop Brian, and I’m here today with Bishop Given Gaula, the bishop of Kondoa in Tanzania, our companion diocese or companion relationship. Welcome to East Tennessee.
Bishop Given Gaula: Thank you very much.
Cole: You’ve had a good journey here. I guess this trip also included a trip to Texas and to Saint John the Divine parish in Houston. So, tell me, you arrived, you and Mother Lillian, arrived here when?
Gaula: We came here on April 17th.
Cole: Wow. Okay. You’ll head home this Thursday.
Gaula: Yes. We’ll be going home on the 17th of May.
Cole: So a month. A month in the US?
Gaula: Yes.
Cole: Yeah. I’m aware that, in the time that you’ve been here, I’ve been traveling some. But you were able to make a a visitation to Good Sam, in Knoxville. And I know that was a good celebration. I’m curious to see what you thought about the good people of Good Sam.
Gaula: This trip, I can say, has been one of the amazing trips I have ever made in the USA and in particular in the Diocese of East Tennessee. I had, one of the amazing experiences at Good Samaritan when you allowed me, you invited me to do confirmation and baptism.
And it was really amazing service and an experience which I have never, ever experienced before in the States. Also, I learned that the church also is growing because bringing 22 people into Christ’s body is not an easy job.
Cole: Right?
Gaula: They have done a good job. And since Good Samaritan is a growing congregation, the number of the new people are coming. So it is a growing church, which for us we need to take that as a point to learn from the Western church because sometime we have a perception that the church in the West is dying. But Good Sam is a vibrant congregation, growing congregation, and they welcomed us very well. We enjoyed having fellowship with them.
Cole: I’m really aware that, you know, they were quite encouraged by your visit to them. And you made a visit this Sunday, I guess, to Good Shepherd, Lookout Mountain, as well. And I know we’re now making plans in 2025 for there to be a pilgrimage that returns to Kondoa, and I’ve lost track of how many times we’ve made this trip back and forth with each other.
Father Charles Fels, I guess, was the instigator of this work with you, but you have been a blessing to us. And, I know right now our hope is to continue to support the work, particularly of the Chemba school. And I’m grateful for all the ways in which clergy have traveled to you. And you’ve traveled here. And you also. We had a chance to see each other at the Lambeth Conference as well in 2022. And curious for you what was kind of what is your hope going forward for the Anglican Communion as we do our work around the globe?
Gaula: Thank you so much. It’s a good question. For me, and it is my belief and hope that we know we work in various contexts, in different contexts, and you work in your own contexts, and we work in our own contexts. But as I preached this last Sunday about the unity of the church, which the lectionary of this week in the Episcopal Church was Saint John’s Gospel, where Jesus is praying for the unity of the church. And they emphasize that we have to stay together as an unbroken communion. But how can we stay together? And I believe if we love each other despite our differences, if we love, if we stay together, as Jesus said, we’ll be witness to the world. Because schism is bad.
So for me, I believe schism is bad. That’s why some of us have been working very hard to ensure the Anglican Communion stays together. And I believe the relationship which we have between the Diocese of East Tennessee and the Diocese of Kondoa is a really good model for the communion, that it is possible for us to work together to pray each other, supporting one another is mutual relationship. We might have different contexts of ministry.
For instance, in my context, which has been a great challenge of polygamy. When the Maasai people come to Christ and they have 12 wives, what should I do? I at one time I baptized a Maasai old man with 12 wives. But he brought the entire boma to the church, 127 baptized them one day. The question was, which was before me, should I baptize this old Maasai who has 12 wives? Because in church tradition we say in the Christian faith we need to have one way find one husband. So what would you do in such a context if you are working in Kondoa, which is a missionary diocese? We reject this Maasai not to come to Christ’s body? So you baptize him! Yeah, I baptize him. Although, yes, I say you need to remain with one wife. Preferably the first wife, but where others will go. Yeah. This is only a challenge of pastoral. Yeah, it’s a pastoral which I need to address in my own context.
Cole: When I remember, I think we visited the Maasai and went to a bomba.
Gaula: Boma.
Cole: And you asked me to…boma…You asked me to help bless.
Gaula: Yes.
Cole: And I remember you turned to me that day and talked about the context in which you do ministry. Acknowledge the context in the West in a diocese that is supportive of full inclusion of LGBTQ folk. And you said, again, recognizing the context in which I do ministry, the context in which you do ministry, they differ. And yet we stay connected to each other. And so I, I appreciated that moment of sort of acknowledging that it’s a global faith that we share in the questions that are come up from the local context, shape our response and who we are and how we navigate that.
It reminds me in the New Testament, you know, when Peter has that vision while he’s praying and the sheet comes down and talk about what has been clean or unclean, and the spirit says, you know, kill and eat. In that experience you have Peter sort of mind’s being changed about what it means for something to be clean or unclean.
And so I think the more we engage each other, the more we both challenge each other, but also encourage each other to say, we live out the Christian faith in the world, right? The call is to love. The call is to reach across difference. And I’m encouraged by the ways in which, again, your presence at Lambeth. I know your presence at Lambeth came at some cost.
Gaula: Yeah, yeah. Up to this day, as I say.
Cole: Yeah. And so it was an encouragement to see you at Lambeth and for to see bishops from the West engage you.
I know the bishop of Long Island has become, through me, wants to be a friend to Kondoa and other places and to say, how can we do this work together? It’s our desire to support you as well. So thank you for making the journey, and I hope you Mother Lillian know that you’ll be in our prayers even as you travel away from us, and look forward to folks who will be coming to see you from East Tennessee in 2025.
Gaula: Thank you so much. I believe that our objective of coming this trip has been achieved. Why I say this? Because it is my sincere hope that our friendship now continues to grow from strength to strength. We want to thank you, the good people of Good Samaritan, and the people of this diocese, East Tennessee, for working alongside us. They have been support, good supporting. They have supported the ministry of the Bishop of Kondoa. Because without their support this would have been very impossible.
Cole: Sure.
Gaula: Because how can you visit the church’s congregation, to mobilize evangelism, to mobilize church planting if you don’t have a car, if you don’t have fuel? But through the support of the Diocese of East Tennessee supporting the Bishop also to enable him to do evangelism and do visitation supporting books for us in St. Peter and Saint Paul’s School, now the focus is also to support Chemba. All of this makes the gospel relevant to the life of the people in the Diocese of Kondoa. The gospel needs to be addressed in a holistic way and you help us fulfill that vision. Thank you very much.
Cole: You’re in our prayers and I know you pray for us and we feel that as well. So we do this work together.
Gaula: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Cole: Alrighty. Okay. You’ll know more about a pilgrimage to Kondoa in 2025. If this is of interest to you, begin to pray now about what it might look like for you to travel with the Diocese of East Tennessee to make a journey to Kondoa next year. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Gaula: Thank you.
Cole: Thank you. Well done.